MedievaLands Forums

Greetings everyone, this will likely be a topic for a Friday Fix at some point since I'm curious about game mechanics, but I'd like to get the conversation started somewhat early on this one.

Wizards - Like the other classes, Wizards level up over time, get HP and Mana, skills, and of course spells. Comparatively to other classes, Wizards get some of the more higher-up spells in the game earlier than any other classes do, however at the cost of HP and Dex per level as an overall whole. (This is sometimes even more exacerbated by the race chosen.) That said, spells really never seem to get any stronger past their 12th upgrade, which kind of gives Wizards (And in some cases Clerics) a sort of glass ceiling as to their relevency. I never really see Wizards have their spells get any stronger or more effective after their spells are fully upgraded, and when you compare them to other classes that continue to get better Dexterity, it leaves Wizards in somewhat of a disadvantageous position. (Pg. 1)

Overall, when you compare Wizards even to their closest counterpart, the Cleric, Wizards still end up getting the short end of the stick as even though they get more Mana and access to the higher-damage spells early on, they cap out just like the Cleric does, yet the Cleric continues to get overall better with level.

This was mentioned briefly in the discussion about Yserbius being a class-based game, but what sort of benefits do you think could be made/applied to the Wizard to make them a more viable class?

get a flex sword

That's part of the problem; sure you can get it to help your overall physical damage, but does that really make up for the class differential in HP and Mana? A Wizard by using the flex sword only ends up masking the problem with beefing up their physical damage, but they'd still end up being extremely weak compared to a knight or barbarian of the same level.

I don't think gear alone is going to make Wizards more enjoyable to play; it seems a bit more complex than that.

I think this is an good place to start a discussion of what additional class balance might be added to MedievaLands. I admit that I've been loathe until recently to even considering changes to the underlying combat mechanics. But my mind has changed on this front in the past month for these two reasons:

First, the original game in its exact original state, warts and all, is still available for play in DosBox and on the INN Barn.

Second, nostalgia is fantastic, but I'd like there to be more to this game than just fleeting nostalgia. I think that people crave new information and experiences within the context of systems they already understand. This is the reason why every weekend and most week nights we enjoy watching more match ups in games we already understand. It's a new experience offering new information within a framework we're already comfortable with.

With that in mind, I'd like to return to your question, Reginald: what untapped powers are yet to be uncovered by the wizards on the isle of Twinion?

To restate Reginald's thesis (please correct me if I have misquoted you): Wizards are unbalanced, compared to other classes, because in combat these arcane experts can do nothing that other classes can't do as well as or better than Wizards.

To put it another way: all classes are wizards; wizards just less so.

That said, if the idea is to rebalance wizards, this must be done in the context of the existing combat engine - I don't want to make wizards stronger than the other classes, merely restore them to their co-equal place in the class hierarchy.

You had a few ideas in the 'Friday Fix' thread from last week. Perhaps wizards could do more damage, or their spells could fizzle less often. I like those ideas.

This could be done behind the scenes, by boosting wizard damage output, or with a passive buff (like stamina) that attaches automatically to wizards and grants them a bonus. Or it could be done with a trinket, like an insignia, only wearable by wizards, that would accomplish the same task.

Beyond boosting damage, what else could wizards do that would be thematically appropriate? Could they uncover some new source of power that would grant them new inherent spells and abilities in the dungeon?

Perhaps. This might require a revamp of the spell/skill menu, to fit more options than the 24 or so available in the legacy game.

It might be easier to attach these new powers, whatever they are, to items of power that again can only be worn by wizards. There are many rings and other items with strange magic about them to be found deep in the dungeon. Perhaps the wizards guild could make a study of these, and find a way to forge more?

Good to hear this is being looked at; a few ideas I had in mind revolve around the following:

- Allow Wizards to do more damage with spells: One of the most limiting aspects of Wizards is that every other class can get all the spells, and be equally as strong with them as the Wizard can. If Wizards had a slightly different damage mechanic for their spells, it would allow their spells to be overall stronger than other classes; the trade-off of course would be how Wizards already are lacking in HP, and their damage output would be somewhat limited to their ability to cast spells. This promotes a Wizard's responsibility to balance their damage output with the Mana they are using, otherwise they will have to subject themselves to sub-par attacks with Staves or whatever weapons they have at their disposal.

(Pg 1.)

- Allow Wizard spells to be more successful in deployment: Being a Wizard should mean there's a benefit to focusing on casting spells rather than relying on melee combat; by casting spells that have a percentage of failure (Ex: Poison Cloud, Backfire, Control etc.) Wizards should have more concentration to be able to make sure these spells succeed. This doesn't mean that Wizards should never be without failure, but should be fractionally more successful at deploying their spells than other classes. There should be a reason for having a Wizard tagging along in the party, and if that reason happens to be they're more reliable with spells that have a failure chance, that should be considered.

These are a few starting ideas on the class that would add more flavor to the Wizard class, without breaking it. Most of the downsides of a Wizard already provide a counterweight to these suggestions I've made.

(Pg 2.)